in CamRock (Moderator: TheMayor1)

Hi all,

Awesome job working on the trail! I love the work you guys did to negate almost all of the nasty ruts that set in! Unfortunately I couldn't make it out to this trail work day but I'll keep my eye out on the forums for another one.

I'd like to bring attention to a fairly dangerous section out at the beginning of Rip n Ride. Coming into the first big drop has become very rough due to new run-off installations. This is particularly on the first 2 s-bends in the trail before the two small jumps and first rock drop.

The downside of the bends are now very very rough, I love a good technical section that requires some skill, but these large off-camber bumps are simply dangerous and slow down the trail. Because of this it forces riders to hug the inside of the trail losing speed and getting dangerously close to a couple of trees.

I'd be very open to coming in and helping throw some dirt over the gauges in the trail to help smooth it out and give the trail some of that flow back.  :P

I tend to agree with the above statement in it's entirety. The thought was good but the layout kills all the flow. Grade reversals or rolling grade dips should be all but imperceptible. Rather than dig trenches or carve low spots less than 3' long we need to be creating long dips that are the length of a bike+ or about 8' - 10'. Downhill of the dip the dirt only has to be built up 3 - 6" X 8' - 10' long with the approach shaped to sheet water off the trail rather than gather it into a single focused spot that will need to be repaired again in the future. Sometimes we will need to create several reversals or rolling grade dips to make sure the water on the trail gets off the trail before it picks up speed.

Of course there are always compromises that have to be made depending on the terrain but erosion mitigating features shouldn't bounce you around

Pages 19-23 contain excerpts from the IMBA trail building guide regrading grade reversals and rolling grade dips:

Obviously I need to find a way to stop going to meetings and get out and ride more. I have only been over that part of the trail once since the work day. And that was with kids in tow.

My observations:
-I agree that the new water diversion features are not great for flow. They don't feel right. That being said I was still on the brakes to scrub speed before dropping into Rip 'N Ride, so in reality they didn't slow me down much, if any.
-I disagree that they are dangerous. It is a mountain bike trail. I don't understand how a bump on the trail is considered dangerous.
-The features are needed to get the water off the trail and prevent erosion.
-By that point in the work day I had pushed folks further than they wanted to go. They had worked hard well into the afternoon and were out of gas. I was very impressed we were able to get this much work done. Given the number of volunteers we had that day, it was hot, it was late. Given what we had to work with, they did a fantastic job and gave it everything they had. They did a great job of making this trail sustainable. Is it perfect? No. But I could not ask for more.

This is a classic case of where a machine is needed to "do it right". It is simply too much labor to work in sod and move the needed amount of material to do a proper grade reversal.

These features must remain to protect the trail from serious erosion. They can be smoothed out. Material can be removed or added to lessen the transitions. But they can not be removed. I will gladly work with anyone that wants to do more work on these features.

Obviously I need to find a way to stop going to meetings and get out and ride more. I have only been over that part of the trail once since the work day. And that was with kids in tow.

My observations:
-I agree that the new water diversion features are not great for flow. They don't feel right. That being said I was still on the brakes to scrub speed before dropping into Rip 'N Ride, so in reality they didn't slow me down much, if any.
-I disagree that they are dangerous. It is a mountain bike trail. I don't understand how a bump on the trail is considered dangerous.
-The features are needed to get the water off the trail and prevent erosion.
-By that point in the work day I had pushed folks further than they wanted to go. They had worked hard well into the afternoon and were out of gas. I was very impressed we were able to get this much work done. Given the number of volunteers we had that day, it was hot, it was late. Given what we had to work with, they did a fantastic job and gave it everything they had. They did a great job of making this trail sustainable. Is it perfect? No. But I could not ask for more.

This is a classic case of where a machine is needed to "do it right". It is simply too much labor to work in sod and move the needed amount of material to do a proper grade reversal.

These features must remain to protect the trail from serious erosion. They can be smoothed out. Material can be removed or added to lessen the transitions. But they can not be removed. I will gladly work with anyone that wants to do more work on these features.

You're right. Dangerous is probably too strong.

I will try to find time to get out there and polish them up.

As trail steward at Blue Mound, I'm undoubtedly biased on this topic, but here goes:

CORP, as a builder of trails is under no obligation to construct trails that are suitable for any amount of speed. It is the responsibility of the rider to use the trails with his bike under control at all times, without exception.

If you think about it for more than a moment, it can not be any other way. No matter how carefully we work at creating safe trails, someone can *always* ride them faster than they are able to handle. CORP has no way to force you to ride within your ability. The safe use of the trails depends on the riders' judgment. Always has, always will.

That being said, I have confidence that Josh and Chuck will do their best to deal with the situation the OP described to find the best compromise between flow, safety, and trail sustainability. FWIW, everyone inside the club is aware we need to find the resources to do a better job with trail construction and maintenance. We're working on that, but the solutions aren't cheap or easy, especially across multiple trail systems. As Chuck states, at some point the solution involves moving a lot of dirt, maybe more than we're currently able to do. The OP's offer of help is a great response and much appreciated.

Walt

Thanks everyone for the posts and discussion.

I think Walt hit it on the head. Really our job as Trail Stewards is to figure out how to make sustainable trails. We try to make them as fun as possible as well, within that parameter. Part of making trails sustainable is to slow riders down. This often involves putting obstacles and features in place to accomplish that. The racers job is to figure out how to go faster than their opponent through these same obstacles.

As stated, the features installed can not be removed and still have a sustainable trail. On the Work Day we were able to do the bare minimum work needed to get this trail to a sustainable level for this season. I am confident with more labor put in we can improve on the work that was done, and make it flow better, but the grade reversals need to be maintained. And there is a lot of work needed in other areas to get ready for the upcoming race.

Randomacity and I have been in touch through PM, and are hoping to meet Friday morning to work on these issues. I am not guaranteed to be free that morning, so if anyone else can for sure make it please post up.