in Beginners, Newbies, Noobz, etc (Moderators: imwjl, TheMayor1)

Whats up?  I am new to the mountain biking community.  This will be my 3rd year on the state trails.  I was hoping people might be able to give me advice on my current bike situation.  I bought this bike in 2010:

http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?year=2010&brand=Gary+Fisher&model=Mamba

I rode the bike around on pavement for the first couple years and the trails since.  The bike is stock.  I am interested in checking out some races this year.  I fear my bike wont hold up much longer than another season of riding.  I ride 2-5 five times a week at kettle, cam, or quarry and I spend about 5-10 days a year in the copper harbor area.  My big dilemma is do I dump $1,000 into my bike right now for better wheels, breaks, and drive train before the season gets going or do I try and make it last another year and buy a full. suspension at the end of the year?  Is the Mamba frame decent enough to where its worth upgrading the components.  Its a 21'' frame and I am 6'2'' 185 lb. not sure if that helps.  I appreciate any advice since I don't really know anybody who legitimately rides mountain bikes.  Thanks

If I were in that situation this is what I would do:

1. Plan to replace just the worn out bits on the current bike, maybe upgrading slightly in the process but not go overboard.
2. Start saving to get a new bike at the end of the year. 
3. Spend a few weeks scouring every corner of the internet to find a couple of bikes to put on the wishlist to have something to work towards.
4. Walk into a shop that's having a decent sale and impulse buy a bike that I barely knew existed but looks perfect (love at first sight)
5. Get over a short period of buyers remorse and spend the summer ripping up the trails on the new bike and have it paid off by the end of summer with no regrets.

That's the process that works for me, it's pretty much how the last dozen or so bikes have gone and I've only ever ended up regretting one or two of them.

Not sure if I meet your criterion, I like to think of myself as an illegitimate rider 

How did you come up with a figure of $1000 for wheels, brakes, and drive train? It's certainly possible to spend that much and more, but those items could be had for considerably less. What's your thinking with these parts, are they near failure or do they just need service? Do you have the experience to do any of the work yourself? Are you looking to make a lightweight race bike or will you be happy with something that works well?

Are the wheels damaged (bent rims) or are they just wobbly (out of true)?
Do the brakes just need pads, or are they sticking partly closed? Is the lever firm when you squeeze it or is it squishy?
What sort of issues are you having with the drive train? Bad shifting? Pops out of gear? Won't shift into some gears? Are the shift cables sticking?

Without knowing what's actually wrong with your bike, all I can say about the repair or replace question is, "It depends."

If you are looking for someone to tell you to spend money on a new bike, there is no shortage of that sort of advise on this forum!

Walt

Thanks for the information guys.  The parts are near failure.  The wheels are not bent but the hubs are what I was thinking about replacing.  I would like something with better engagement for racing.  The $1,000 price is what a local shop quoted me for CK hubs and a new mechanical brake system.  The front brake lever is very squishy.  I was having budget bicycle service the bike but they have not done the best work.  The brakes were only slightly better after new pads and their service.  I was told the caliper needed to be replaced and the cables were a bit worn.

The drive train pops out of gear when I start to pick up speed quickly, but that could be my fault for not cycling through the gears properly.  I adjusted the front and rear derailleurs so there wouldn't be any chain rubbing on the first two gear sets because I have been using those the most on the trails.  The adjustment has eliminated my ability to use the 3rd gear set so I may replace that with a bash ring like the suggestions from the other posts in this forum.  The derailleurs themselves are pretty banged up.  I have bent the rear back into a working position a few times now.

I have started doing most of the service myself to try and learn.  I use to race and service dirt bikes so a lot of the mechanical experience transfers over.

Basically I am not sure if the frame itself is worth building up for a decent x country race bike or if its the type of bike I should just continue maintaining with standard or slight upgrades.  I guess an easier way would be to just bring the bike to a shop and ask.  I have not done this since my experience with budget was not the best.

You can easily upgrade you current rear wheel and brakes for far less than 1k. This would get you better parts than you currently have for $300 (and this is without doing any price shopping).

http://www.treefortbikes.com/cat/0/127/Parts.html#navbar=pro___333222387697___85
http://www.treefortbikes.com/cat/0/78/Brakes.html#navbar=pro___333222375588___454

I'm 100% confident that the guys on this forum can point you to better/cheaper alternatives too. And don't get too caught up in what's "best", sure the CK hubs are really nice but you can get stuff that's more-or-less functionally equivalent for far far less money.

Also there are a lot of good bike shops to choose from in Madison so if you're not satisfied with Budget then shop around until you find one you like.

First, welcome! Stop at our events and introduce yourself. Bring a friend.

I always do a look in the mirror honesty check on upgrades to make sure I'm not fooling myself. If it's a bike I intend to ride a lot and for a while or parts I'll use on another bike I feel more confident about spending. The only times I've honestly done well with resale has been times like buying antique and special stuff at bargain prices. If I do an expensive upgrade I do it for me vs resale or thinking it will somehow turn the gravity off.

On behalf of the MSN dirt posse, we hope to see you around and have a great next season.

Thanks for the information guys.  The parts are near failure.  The wheels are not bent but the hubs are what I was thinking about replacing.  I would like something with better engagement for racing.  The $1,000 price is what a local shop quoted me for CK hubs and a new mechanical brake system.  The front brake lever is very squishy.  I was having budget bicycle service the bike but they have not done the best work.  The brakes were only slightly better after new pads and their service.  I was told the caliper needed to be replaced and the cables were a bit worn.

The drive train pops out of gear when I start to pick up speed quickly, but that could be my fault for not cycling through the gears properly.  I adjusted the front and rear derailleurs so there wouldn't be any chain rubbing on the first two gear sets because I have been using those the most on the trails.  The adjustment has eliminated my ability to use the 3rd gear set so I may replace that with a bash ring like the suggestions from the other posts in this forum.  The derailleurs themselves are pretty banged up.  I have bent the rear back into a working position a few times now.

I have started doing most of the service myself to try and learn.  I use to race and service dirt bikes so a lot of the mechanical experience transfers over.

Basically I am not sure if the frame itself is worth building up for a decent x country race bike or if its the type of bike I should just continue maintaining with standard or slight upgrades.  I guess an easier way would be to just bring the bike to a shop and ask.  I have not done this since my experience with budget was not the best.

I'm not a professional mechanic but here's my 2c.

Hubs: I don't think better engagement is really necessary for racing, what you want is light weight and durable.  I would look more at DT Swiss, or maybe White Industries or something cheaper if that doesn't work with your budget.  I could be wrong here but I gave a hard look at hubs recently.  AFAIK engagement is more for trials and less for racing/speed.

Front brake lever: It sounds like you have mechanical (cable) brakes.  I'm not really familiar with these but "squish" to me sounds like a worn brake cable, or perhaps misaligned pads or bad calipers.  If it were a hydraulic brake I'd say the brake would need to be bled of air.  You can get a cheap set of very good hydraulic brakes for $100 at pricepoint.com (Hayes Stroker).

Drive train popping:  If you've bent the rear derailleur this would be an obvious place to look for shifting problems.  I think there is a tool for aligning this, but sometimes it's not correctable.  It could also be something simple such as tightening or loosening the tension on the shifter cable via thumb screw on the shifter (do quarter turns to start with), or by releasing the cable at the derailleur and redoing it.  I would search the internet for derailleur adjustment, I believe Park Tools has a good reference for this.  Otherwise, it could be your chain is worn out, in which case you need to replace the chain and maybe the rear cassette.  Again, internet search for bike chain stretch.  It's the link pivots that wear out, not actual metal stretching, which make the chain longer, and then it doesn't match up with the cassette teeth and causes skipping.  Over time this can wear the cassette.  There is a general rule of thumb that I can't recall, where if your chain has stretched past a certain degree, you should replace the cassette.  Again, google is your friend (in this case).

Your adjustment on the front derailleur sounds like you played with the limit screws.  You can effectively make your bike a 2x setup by adjusting the screw that changes how far out (away from the frame) the derailleur can go.  Park Tools website should again provide a guide for this.

It's up to you about replacing the bike vs. fixing it.  There's maintenance with any bike.  Short term it would be cheaper, you would get to practice being a mechanic/learn things that you maybe wouldn't want to mess with on a new bike, and after it's fixed up, you can sell it for a little more and recoup a little bit of what you put into it.

Good luck!

Thanks for the information guys.  The parts are near failure.  The wheels are not bent but the hubs are what I was thinking about replacing.  I would like something with better engagement for racing.  The $1,000 price is what a local shop quoted me for CK hubs and a new mechanical brake system.  The front brake lever is very squishy.  I was having budget bicycle service the bike but they have not done the best work.  The brakes were only slightly better after new pads and their service.  I was told the caliper needed to be replaced and the cables were a bit worn.

The drive train pops out of gear when I start to pick up speed quickly, but that could be my fault for not cycling through the gears properly.  I adjusted the front and rear derailleurs so there wouldn't be any chain rubbing on the first two gear sets because I have been using those the most on the trails.  The adjustment has eliminated my ability to use the 3rd gear set so I may replace that with a bash ring like the suggestions from the other posts in this forum.  The derailleurs themselves are pretty banged up.  I have bent the rear back into a working position a few times now.

I have started doing most of the service myself to try and learn.  I use to race and service dirt bikes so a lot of the mechanical experience transfers over.

Basically I am not sure if the frame itself is worth building up for a decent x country race bike or if its the type of bike I should just continue maintaining with standard or slight upgrades.  I guess an easier way would be to just bring the bike to a shop and ask.  I have not done this since my experience with budget was not the best.

And my $0.02:

I agree with Gary, spending lots of money on wheels just to get faster engagement isn't a good use of your limited resources. If you are looking at wheels as a performance improvement, that's a complex subject. In my extremely limited racing experience, you would do better and save money to boot by going with a conversion to tubeless tires. My argument is while weight is important, you gain more efficiency by running lower tire pressure (unlike road bike tires) plus you gain traction and ability to hold speed through corners by having better traction.

Be aware that if you go this way and use standard tires, so-called "ghetto tubeless", the relatively weak sidewalls are vulnerable to cuts leading to blowouts. I mention this because I ride at Blue Mound with its many sharp rocks and have personally witnessed several tubeless blowouts from sidewall cuts. Most trails in this area are not as hard on tires though, and using non-UST tires in tubeless conversions work fine.

Brakes have been cheap in recent years. You can get a replacement hydraulic brake in the $100 range at Price Point, Cambria, or JensonUSA

http://www.pricepoint.com/Components/Brakes/?page_no=1&fq=353_1_category:443

Mechanical:

http://www.pricepoint.com/Components/Brakes/?page_no=1&fq=353_1_category:369

With regards to bad shifting, I've found three things fix most problems.
    Is your chain and/or cassette worn out?
    Is the derailleur mount bent?
    Are the cables in good condition?

Do you know how to evaluate chain wear? If not, just take a good quality 12" ruler and measure across the same link feature, 12 links apart, while the chain is under tension. If the chain is not worn, the features will line up exactly 12" apart. If the wear (stretch) is 1/16" or less, replacing the chain will usually result in acceptable performance. More than 1/16" of wear on the chain usually means the cassette is also worn out. Replacing the chain at this point of wear usually results in the chain not riding correctly on the cassette.

http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

Bent derailleur hangers can be bent back to correct alignment, but it takes this tool:

http://www.parktool.com/product/derailleur-hanger-alignment-gauge-dag-2
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/technical-tuesday-straightening-derailleur-hanger-2010.html

If you bend your derailleur hanger once or twice it's cheaper to pay a professional to align it. After that, the tool is cheaper. Also, if you own the tool, you can impress your friends with your mechanic's skills.

With regards to cables, I don't know any foolproof test to be certain they are in good condition. However, if the rear derailleur hangs up while dropping into the smaller cogs more than failing while pushing the chain up into the larger ones, that's a pretty certain sign the cable is sticking. Sometimes you can feel it by freeing the wire at both ends and working it back and forth by hand.

By the way, if you do replace the cable, it's a good idea to replace the housing as well as the inner wire. A common problem with cutting cable housing is that standard wire cutters tend to crush the housing or otherwise leave a poorly cut housing end. This tool helps prevent that problem.

http://www.parktool.com/product/professional-cable-and-housing-cutter-cn-10

Hope this helps.

Walt

Gary and Walt have given you a lot of good info.

I'll contradict them on one point though...do not waste any time trying to align the derailleur hanger on your frame. It's an aluminum frame and I'd bet that it has a replaceable hanger. I'd even bet that the Trek Stores have them in stock...get a new hanger.

Also, the only time I've really noticed the benefits of super quick engagement hubs is riding single speed. I tend to ratchet the pedals on occasion and it helps there.

King hubs are nice, but there are lots of really nice hubs out there for a fraction of that cost. Hope, White Industries, Dt-Swiss all make good hubs too.

Also, the only time I've really noticed the benefits of super quick engagement hubs is riding single speed. I tend to ratchet the pedals on occasion and it helps there.

King hubs are nice, but there are lots of really nice hubs out there for a fraction of that cost. Hope, White Industries, Dt-Swiss all make good hubs too.

Seconded.  Go ahead and get an extra one while you are at it, if you've bent it before chances are you'll bend it again. Keeping the extra one taped to your frame somewhere means you'll always be able to find it, especially if you rip one off during a ride.

I read that he bent the derailleur itself, not the hanger. A good mechanic should be able to tell you what you need done, I'm not sure I could tell the difference if it's not obvious. Could be both were bent.

I read that he bent the derailleur itself, not the hanger. A good mechanic should be able to tell you what you need done, I'm not sure I could tell the difference if it's not obvious. Could be both were bent.

If the derailleur is bent, it's time for a new one.

Yeah that's right. It's been awhile.

I read that he bent the derailleur itself, not the hanger. A good mechanic should be able to tell you what you need done, I'm not sure I could tell the difference if it's not obvious. Could be both were bent.

I've ridden road bikes for years and never had a bent der. hanger.  Shortly after I started mountain biking again I bought a Park Tool Derailleur Alignment Gauge (and spent some time learning how to use it).

It is very useful for keeping that shifting spot on and saving me trips to the bike shop (especially as un-graceful as I am on the trail).